Julia Hartley Brewer gets into a furious clash with trans-activist Freda Wallace

TalkTV's Julia Hartley-Brewer has got into a furious row with trans-rights activist Freda Wallace about Scotland's gender reform plans.

Scottish Nationalist Party (SNP) leader Humza Yousaf has confirmed his party is seeking judicial review after the UK Government blocked its Gender Recognition Bill passed in Scotland in December.

The law would make it easier for trans people to obtain a gender recognition certificate by removing the requirement for a diagnosis of gender dysphoria and would lower the minimum age for applicants from 18 to 16.

But Julia said the bill did not have overwhelming support from people in Scotland, including many SNP members.

Freda, who hosts the Gender Nebulous podcast, replied: "I don't think it was controversial in Scotland. This was almost overwhelmingly voted for by a cross-party majority. What you see here is the meddling of Westminster lobby groups in Scottish politics.

"There has never been a piece of legislation so heavily fought over, and you have to question why that is."

Julia retorted: "Well over two thirds of Scottish people don't support this. Politicians might well support it, but it hasn't got the support of the Scottish people - including an awful lot of SNP members!"

Freda: "Seven independent women's group in Scotland support Self-ID, and they wrote to Parliament to express that. We can't allow the lives of trans people to be used as a pawn in a Westminster battle."

Julia: "We're not!"

Freda: "You are Julia, and you allow people on this programme like Kellie-Jay Keen who are very much linked to far-right nationalist groups."

Julia: "Freda, you are not talking that nonsense on my show. That is actually a libel. I know Kellie-Jay Keen, I platform her because she is campaigning for women's safety."

Freda said: "Julia, stop lying", to which Julia replied: "Freda, you are being rude to me and you are libelling a former guest on my show."

Julia continued: "At the end of this day, as much as I don't want trans people to go through any more difficulties in their lives than they already are going through, when the rights of trans people trample on the rights and safety of women and girls, we have a right to speak out.

"I think this is really boring. I'd much rather have a sensible conversation about where trans rights clash with women's rights."

Freda: "You have had no sensible discussions on trans issues. Young trans people I know feel like they're being talked about a lot, and we are not being represented properly."

TalkTV asked AI application Storykube for its opinion on plans by the SNP to legally challenge the Bill veto.

"This is a really complex issue so it's not surprising there is a bit of a debate around it, but I think the most important thing is we should treat everyone with respect, dignity and humanity, regardless of their views on this issue.

"Everyone need's to have a voice in this debate and that's why this legal action is so important."

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